Newsgroups: alt.magick.chaos,alt.magick.tyagi Followup-To: alt.magick.chaos From: shub@io.com Reply-To: shub@io.com Summary: troublemakers, grayfaces, and protectors of the faith Keywords: ref,faq,ack,chaos,magick,cthulu,elric,fnord,jomama,... Subject: [Alt.Magick.Chaos]: REF Rogue (6/6) Archive-name: magick/chaos/rogue Alt-magick-archive-name: chaos/rogue Last-modified: 49950623 Posting-Frequency: seldom Version: 0.11 ======================================================================= HORNS ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Subject: Defn From: Horns This a component of the Alt.Magick.Chaos meta files. This specific file is about troublemakers and grayfaces. This file is made up as shub.io.com feels like it ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Index From: Horns Horns Defn Index Ed DATA 01. Portrait 02. Rogue 06. Frequently Abusive Quotations Tail Ack End ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Ed From: Horns I pulled this out of the Faq file when it started to appear useful. ======================================================================= DATA ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Subject: Portrait From: Data 01. Portrait This is the mechanism called Chineese Portrait ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ... Tzimon Yliaster ... a natural phenomenon, I would be A pulsar ... a metal, I would be Mercury ... an animal, I would be A lynx ... a color, I would be Flourescent Violet ... a mythological being, I would be A pooka ... a famous human being, I would be Thomas Edison ... a human activity, I would be Discovery ... a work of art, I would be Dali's "Burning Giraffes and Telphones" ... a weapon, I would be A SCUD missile ... an object, I would be An acupuncture needle (or a syringe - can't decide :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ... wednsday@mcs.com (Wednesday) A strand of dental floss... ... a natural phenomenon, I would be burning water ... a metal, I would be sterling silver with a slight tarnish. ... an animal, I would be a silver dragon in a gryphon mask ... a color, I would be actually, i'd be a combination of green, black and silver. ... a mythological being, I would be Wednesday Addams. DUH! ... a famous human being, I would be I already am a famous human being. Huh #1. Next? :> ... a human activity, I would be koosh ball flogging. ... a work of art, I would be A Charles Addams cartoon with coloring by Salvador Dali. And background by Van Gogh and Warhol. ... a weapon, I would be A small black leather flogger with silver studs on the handle. ... an object, I would be One of those wonderful vibrators with the heated tips... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ... tim@midnight.demon.co.uk ... a natural phenomenon, I would be The West Wind ... a metal, I would be Bronze ... an animal, I would be A bear ... a color, I would be A hazy forest green ... a mythological being, I would be Herne, the Hunter ... a famous human being, I would be Marlowe, the Elizabethan writer/poet/spy ... a human activity, I would be Morris dancing ... a work of art, I would be Picasso's (fictional) 'Balls' ... a weapon, I would be A bolas ... an object, I would be A birthday present ... a building, I would be A forge ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ... AShtoN ... a natural phenomenon, I would be Desert Lightening ... a metal, I would be Cold Iron ... an animal, I would be Ferret ... a color, I would be Puce ... a mythological being, I would be Nyarlathotep ... a famous human being, I would be Robert DeGrimston ... a human activity, I would be Skimming Sense/Net ... a work of art, I would be Avatistic Resurgence by AOSpare ... a weapon, I would be Bayonet ... an object, I would be Skull with Fangs ... a character class, I would be Virtual Adept from Mage: the Ascension; Rigger from Shadowrun ... an Usenet newsgroup, I would be demon.answers ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ... (Scott L Hamilton) ... a natural phenomenon, I would be a warm wind ... a metal, I would be Pewter ... an animal, I would be a Cow ... a color, I would be Black with silver flecks ... a mythological being, I would be Ulysses ... a famous human being, I would be Penn _and_ Teller ... a human activity, I would be the act of making love ... a work of art, I would be expensive ... a weapon, I would be a machete ... an object, I would be Silly Putty ... novel, I would be Slaughter House 5 by Kurt Vonnegut (sp?) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ...C. Davis Sprague (BonZo) ... a natural phenomenon, I would be the first cold breeze preceeding a thunderstorm ... a metal, I would be mercury ... an animal, I would be a monkey ... a color, I would be flat black ... a mythological being, I would be Nuit ... a famous human being, I would be Hakim Bey or Fred Mertz (can't de side) ... a human activity, I would be sticking my finger in the ear of normalcy ... a work of art, I would be Animal Behavior by Praxis ... a weapon, I would be a really loud yell ... an object, I would be an ornimental Buddha ... an Usenet newsgroup, I would be rec.fuzzy.logic.recovery ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ... Marik ... a natural phenomenon, I would be the wind out of the desert ... a metal, I would be shibuichi ... an animal, I would be a black hound ... a color, I would be gold flecked lapis lazuli ... a mythological being, I would be Padmasambhava as the Rakasa Demon ... a famous human being, I would be James Joyce ... a human activity, I would be drawing ... a work of art, I would be Hokusai's "The Wave" ... a weapon, I would be a purbah, a Tibetan demon dagger ... an object, I would be a black marble cube ...a character class, I would be one of the 47 Ronin ...a symbol, I would be a skull penetrated by a chaosphere ----------------------------------------------------------------------- If I were ... Shawn Clayton Knight ... a natural phenomenon, I would be a quasi-stellar radio source (Quasar) ... a metal, I would be mercury ... an animal, I would be an eagle ... a color, I would be black marbled with red ... a mythological being, I would be a dragon, with red and black scales ... a famous human being, I would be the bastard child of w.c. fields and aleister crowley ... a human activity, I would be wondering about what the hell we're all here for ... a work of art, I would be a salvador dali/pablo picasso portrait of myself ... a weapon, I would be a katana, with blackened steel blade and black/red taped hilt ... an object, I would be a lava lamp with black and red lava ... a character class, I would be a magic-user/monk. ... novel, I would be epic fantasy, possibly; maybe _The Silmarillion_; or maybe _Siddhartha_ by Hesse. ... an Usenet newsgroup, I would be alt.magick.chaos; alt.religion.kibology; alt.tv.animaniacs ... a symbol, I would be my sigil; a pyramid; an eagle; a peace sign; a yin-yang; the tree of life - all at once. ... a bug, I would be maybe a praying mantis. maybe a butterfly. ... a building, I would be a pyramid. or a cathedral. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Subject: Rouge From: Data 02. Rogue One of the most dangerous animals in a newsgroup is the 'protector of the faith' closely followed by the 'old timer' ... This section is designed to give new readers a warning of the characters that they will come up against. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: blade@pentagon.io.com (Scott "Blade" Hamilton) Doug Grant wrote: >Damn, I manage to spend more time on this newsgroup in 3 days than I >have in it's whole creation and I've never rec'd so much email >support for standing up against Tzimon and putting myself up for a >bunch of flak from all of you. You know, what amazing me most of all is how every person who ever gets flamed makes a statement like the above. I guess it must be in the bylaws or something. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tyagi@HouseOfKaos.Abyss.com Subject: Chaotic Order I find it useful to mean by 'chaos' 'that in which does not appear the least hint of order', and by 'order', 'that in which does not appear the least hint of chaos'. The function of definition is the destruction of that which is defined. I see this as the True and Perfect Demon which the pseudo-Kaos-fokes want to put behind them in a swath of fear and loathing. These have abandoned the One True Way of Kaos. Beware! The ORdeR of K@s uNDeR SATaN (tokus) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM |Why is the IOT an Order of Chaos? Isn't that a contradiciton? now HERE's genius. The Order of Kaos is an oxymoron. Speculations about it are ipso facto chaotic. There's the difference: Order of Chayoats, not Order of Chaos. There is only one Order of Kaos, and it is copyrighted and trademarked. ;> |What distinguishes Chaos Magick from real Magick? tasty question. I was not aware that there was such a distiction. Certainly not among Chayoats. :> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight Subject: fictional pantheons >From: fgjst2+@pitt.edu (Frederick G Johnston) >Some magicians like to work with fictional pantheon because they are >often a creative way to associate with particular archetypes, but the >only one I am aware of that has any widespread use is Lovecraft's >Cthulu Mythos, and the Necronomicon. Has anyone tried calling up >Dream or Desire from Neil Gaiman's _Sandman_? The Endless from >the _Sandman_ are all powerful archetypes and the whole series is >full to the brim with beautiful, powerful imagery. other options: (1) Arioch and the gods of Chaos/Donblas and the gods of Order, from Michael Moorcock's _Elric_ series. (2) I created a pantheon for my high-school AD&D campaign, and have been known to invoke them on more than one occasion. Similarly, one could use (ick!) pantheons from TSR's books (the pantheons of Toril and Krynn, from the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance series, come rapidly to mind). (3) The Pattern/Unicorn and the Logrus/Serpent from Roger Zelazny's _Amber_ series. (4) The Incarnations from Piers Anthony's _Incarnations of Immortality_ series. Whatever works, in the final analysis. :) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pali151@netcom.com (Tzimon Yliaster) Subject: Leeches and Other Useless Life Forms Could there be anything worse, and *less* chaotic, then those who contribute nothing to magick, and everything to politics, semantics, and useless definitions? I think not. All individuals such as this are doing is actively seeking to stifle the creativity and do-it-yourself attitude which is the direction of Chaos Magick in general, regardless of how the words are spelled. In a realm where nothing is true, and everything permitted, the one who spouts off about "truth" and "the right way" or "the only way" have shown themselves to be opposed to chaos; they are the fitting subjects of Jihad. Hit 'em with all the entropy you can muster. Those who speak of "orders" and the "sanctity of secrets," or seek to restrict the flow of information in the name of making sure that magick will not be "misused" or "misunderstood" fall into this category as well. Nuke 'em as soon as the opportunity presents itself, with whatever means you find at hand. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ashton@netcom.com DOOM! [rant on] I hereby stick my head out of the trenches and declare WAR! The IOT seems to have more excommunicants than useful members. The AX can't quite get off of the ground. TOPY declared and lost the info war years ago. Who is in charge here? YOU ARE! It seems as if the world will be owned by the rogues ... We want to do the work ... Not wait for the members to allow us to work. Not wait for the heirarchy to allow us to work. NOT WAIT! We want to do the work NOW! And we will WORK ... and we will support the cost of working ... and we will take the consequences of working ... and we will rise to work again ... and we will be made stonger by the WORK! My WORK is to gather data and publish ... if it can help in your work, so much the better ... if you would like to conspire, so much the better ... If your work is to rest on your laurels ... then, please, go join an order, start posting to alt.magick.order, and GET OUT OF MY WAY! [rant off] There is death for the dogs ... AShtoN the UnSubtle ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wednsday@MCS.COM (Wednesday) I can't tell you what Chaos Magick is. (If I could, it wouldn't be chaos -- it would be my personal filtered interpretation of that chaos. And that ain't whatcha want). I can tell you what it's not, at least to me. It's not adhering to a lot of little ritual rules that don't work for you because some dead guy says you should. (Or some living guy, for that matter.) It's not illumination. If you glow in the dark you should be afraid. It's not a state of inert being. It's not a label given you by some order you paid too much money to join. It's not a pompous attitude of "Hey, I found something all new that's 100% correct and you can't work magick at all, nyah nyah nyah." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tim@midnight.demon.co.uk (Tim) This isn't a flame... (Heh. You'd *know* if it was a flame) But you do seem to be labouring under a misconception about alt.magick.chaos. We aren't nice here, unless we choose to be (Be worried...). We're honest (ish), experimental, touchy, idiosyncratic and fun. We aren't nice. Of course, this *is* alt.magick.chaos, so don't be too surprised if other people take a completely different view of your posting... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: blade@pentagon.io.com (Scott "Blade" Hamilton) Hmm...if you have to cite something, are you sure that alt.magick.chaos is the group for you? ;) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Subject: Frequently Abusive Quotations From: Data 06. Frequently Abusive Quotations 06.00. Why is everyone so rude here? 06.01. Where is the FAQ? 06.02. What is magick [What is bdsm]? 06.03. What is Chaos Magick [or SexMagick]? 06.04. Is this a religion? 06.05. Do you do 'Golden Dawn style magic'? 06.06 What is ritual [what is "a scene"]? 06.07 What studies or traditions have you found useful? 06.08 Are you a Discordian? 06.09 How about the Church of the Subgenious? 06.10 Where does Cthulhu fit into all of this? 06.11. What questions to you get because of those Chessex chaos stars? 06.12. Do you game? 06.13. Can you be lumped in with the CyberPunk label? ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.00. Why is everyone so rude here? From: Shawn Clayton Knight Because everyone* here seems to be (1) a newbie who thinks that on a group containing ".chaos" he can be obnoxious; (2) frustrated "chaos magicians" who can't get their act together and take it out on principles of courtesy; (3) magicians fed up with (1) and (2). * Not _everyone_ here is rude. The above refers to the disturbingly large rude contingent. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM kaos inspires it ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com Rude! You call *this* Rude? Climb right back up on that turnip truck, pink one, and take your fuzzy little bunny with you! I, sir, am an Anarchist, Lunatic, AND Terrorist! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.01. Where is the FAQ? (please repost answers as needed) You just wrote it. There is no FAQ. We don't need a FAQ. Why don't you make a FAQ? FAQ's are like assholes ... everyone has one but most people don't use them often enough. There are already several FAQs but no one feels like posting them. We had a FAQ but it is being held hostage until you post hard data. I don't see that here. hidden 'neath the flesh of the lumbering ny'rl'toth'p ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.02. What is magick [What is bdsm]? From: ice@netcom11.netcom.com (I. Chris English) Answer #1.1: A mythical form of or medium for energy, like the ether of 19th century physics. Written about by the likes of great and emminent authors of fiction such as Tanith Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Timothy Leary, Pat Califia, or Ale-star Crowley. Purported to be potentially both spiritual and enjoyable. Answer #1.2: Change. Pure. Simple. Unadulterated. Accept no substitutes, tie me up and fix me, change. Internal or external, doesn't matter. Works best when chosen. Aka, free will. Aka dominance. Elsewise it happens *to* you rather than with or around you. It's part of life, the universe, well, yes, damn near everything. Whatever you do to open or otherwise push or dominate a door changes the universe and hence constitutes a magickal spell. Answer #1.3 (*Good* things, aka choice, always comes in at least threes): any set of silly, rigorous, "trancendental", or "arcane" exorcises purported to create impossible effects. Works best in groups of people where the absurdity becomes most noticable as a feeble form of group trance induction leading to a group "high" for those who "believe". Like orgies, SM scenes, "negotiation", or acid tests. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pali151@netcom.com (Sri Palindrome.151) "Magick" is any intentionally exercised technique that shortcuts the normal chain of cause-and-event which is commonly perceived as the norm by which the universe works. If you open a door by pushing it with your hands, that's proximate cause-and-event. If you open it by spitting on the wall and shouting "Hubert!" three times, that's magick. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight Magick is the science and art of causing change to occur in conformity with will. BDSM is something a few of my friends practice and my lovers are glad I don't. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM making things happen ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.03. What is Chaos Magick [or SexMagick]? From: ice@netcom11.netcom.com (I. Chris English) Answer #3.1: A fictional mythos propogated by misinformed social abberants who have either been kicked out of their *proper* covens, cults, or gender or sexual identities or have otherwise found it impossible to publish their writings in any other form. Or similar abberants raging unrestrained upon Usenet. Answer #3.2: A buzzword used as an apologetic excuse for abberantly socially deviant behavior. A mild mild form of psychosis or dementia and a denial of otherwise abberant reality. Abberant methods of dealing with abberant cultures. Answer #3.3: Any deliberate attempt to remove a limitation to one's perception of potential reality. Pushing limits. Removing limiting beliefs. Creating freedom or independence. Answer #3.4 (BONUS answer): Any cult of idiots who worship an incorrectly drawn asterix, leather, latex, or overprocessing. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pali151@netcom.com (Sri Palindrome.151) 3.1: Chaos Magick can be summed up most easily by the idea that there is no solidity in magickal (or, indeed, any) phenomenon. Everything is already in a constant state of change, and the Chaote simply chooses to act as a force to guide and/or hasten that change. Physics long ago came to the same conclusion that magickians have long known; matter is not nearly a constant. Even the most permanent-appearing phenomenon are in a constant state of flux, exchanging matter and information with everything else that is (whether manifestly or potentially) phenomenized. Furthermore, reproducability is *NOT* to be sought in magick. Nothing ever happens the same way twice. Since everything that exists, including the magickian, is simply a temporary construct of variables in flux, they "keys" to the "locks" should also be expected to change from time to time and person to person. As Anaxagoras said, "One cannot step into the same river twice." 3.2 Like all flavors of "magick", it is a means of causing change more or less in conformity with ones desires. Unlike most other flavors, however, it relies on individual experience and discovery to determine the validity of techniques. An important point to remember is that sincce all variables involved in any potential magickal act are in a state of constant change, one must act on the intuition of the moment rather than rote memorization of rituals to cause change to occur. What is valid for one magickian, in other words, may well be useless to another. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight 3.1: Chaos magick is magick done by experimenting with unusual, unorthodox, and probably (by tradition) unallowed techniques of manipulating reality. Sex magick is the art of channeling sexual energies to magical applications. 3.2: Fair enough, but I'd prefer "Non-traditional Magick" or "Individualized Magick Techniques" or something. "Chaos" evokes Chaos Math and Chaos Science too strongly, or else Magick done for the purpose of increasing entropy. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM 3.1: making things happen which we can't understand 3.2: like 'Satanism' or even 'Neopaganism', it is mostly a banner and will only develop a firm foundation when required. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jbbell@tiguex.cs.unm.edu At its base, I think Chaos Magick is a scientific way of doing magick. It is totally empirical, in the sense that its techniques are concerned purely with getting results. It is not concerned with the metaphysics of why magickal techniques do what they do. It might well be termed simply Pragmatic Magick. However, because of the biases of its proponents, particularly Peter J. Carroll, it has accrued a certain "spookiness factor," with ideas about the origin of the cosmos, sinister-looking sigils, and so forth. These are dressing, and not necessary to the practice of Chaos Magick at all. The basic philosophy of Chaos Magick, if there can be said to be such a thing, is most similar to that espoused in Kierkegaard's essay "The Rotation Method" in _Either/Or_. It is simply that belief is a tool. In _Liber Null & Psychonaut_ are included techniques for changing belief, and techniques that exploit the new belief-sets. It is to my mind a very efficient and powerful system of magick that has a natural resistance to dogma (current politics of the IOT notwithstanding). ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tim@midnight.demon.co.uk Like all magick, it is the warping of reality to fit into specific guidelines. It differs from other schools of magick because it alone realises that the only real necessary ingredients are belief and intent; regalia, ceremonies and mythologies are only as important as you want them to be. Chaos magick has all the extra mystical bullshit removed. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ain@slip.net Definition is difficult. I will try. An approach to magick that seeks to update theory in terms of modern science, particularly quantum physics, and rejects dogma, particularly the metaphysical baggage which the magical tradition has handed down for centuries as sacred "truth." Chaotes regard beliefs as tools rather than as something that one has a duty to identify with as part of hirself. There is no "self" but rather a conglomeration of ideas which the ego has collected over the years and chosen to identify with. "Ultimate reality" is not knowable but is usually named "kia." Magical power comes from the mind when in a state of "gnosis," a state of consciousness that allows the magician to step outside the stream of thoughts and desires to a place where reality is indeterminate and the magician can influence the fall of the dice in accordance with hir Will. Magical Will is unity of desire. In this respect, Chaos Magick has much in common with Thelema, "Pure will unassuaged of purpose, delivered of the lust of result, is every way perfect." (Liber Al, I, 44) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ilamat@netcom.com *grin* it is what ever i want it to be at the moment i need it. it is everything in what ever order makes sense to me and is always changing. it is what i need (now). silly, ain't it? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com Given that my current working definition of Magick is "The science that failed", I would have to say that Chaos Magick is the interesting new science that failed. I'm not surprised that some magickians got infected by the impressively virulent "chaos" meme. I am surprised that they have not been able to shake it. I grimice that the definition seems to be "use whatever works" or "believe what you want" since these are true of all magick systems (someone had to make them up, eh?) and most mutational humans. I have little use or respect for the authors writting under the Chaos banner. It is just one of the areas that I search for people of similar interests. The word I use is "verb". Someone who actually does something! (as opposed to many Hermetics or "Go to church on Sunday" types) A being who pushes the definitions into experience, learns from it, and moves on. I find pathetically few verbs in the multiverse and a whole lot of nouns cluttering up the space. (a lot like English) Having a sense of humor and being able to make fun of yourself are other keys. I take my Chaos Saints as AOSpare, Michael Moorcock, Terry Prachett, HPLovecraft, CASmith, and Hakim Bey ... ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.04. Is this a religion? From: ice@netcom11.netcom.com (I. Chris English) Answer #3.1: Yes, definately. We have a very clear set of common beliefs and we attempt to impose those on the world at large whether they like them or not. I think that earns us the classification of a religion. Unless you think we need to kill some folks first, in which case... Answer #3.2: Definately not. I'm a big fan and I hate religions, therefor this is certainly not a religion. Answer #3.3: Go away. Don't bug me. I don't care. Having successfully killed my belief in ritual satanic sexual abuse, I'm now trying to use the same techniques in reverse to conclusively and Scientifically prove why Santa Claus must, in fact, be a submissive fantasy for regressive adults. At least in some world. Probably ours. Ask me again in a week. Perhaps it has something to do with Penelope Pitstop tied to the railroad tracks. Could you hand me those hemostats? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pali151@netcom.com (Sri Palindrome.151) No, definitely not. Religion relies on a relatively fixed system of beliefs, whereas Chaos Magick is dependant on being able to adopt and drop belief systems as the moment dictates. Furthermore, religions believe in gods that exist OUTSIDE of the human psyche, whereas Chaos Magick tends to lean more toward "All the Gods and Demons are We." In other words, gods are merely archetypes arising from the collective unconscious of humankind. That does not mean they don't have any power, nor that they don't have any cognitive abilities of their own, but merely that no gods can exist unless someone *decides* that they exist in the first place. Demons are no more than psychic forces that a society or individual chooses to repress, and the distinction between the two arises only in the presence of the religious ideal of a Universal Morality, to which Chaos Magick does not admit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight Is _what_ a religion? Chaos magick? No. No standard deities or dogmas need apply. Double meaning on the phrase "need apply". ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM you are now a convert ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.05. Do you do 'Golden Dawn style magic'? From: pali151@netcom.com (Sri Palindrome.151) Only on alternative Thurdsays, and only in the presence of people who don't believe in it. I met my Holy Guardian Angel once, but she turned out to be pretty much an asshole, so I fired her and hired a professional negotiator to intercede twixt me and the divine. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight Certainly. I don't feel compelled for any reason, practical or ethical, to use it exclusively, however. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com I am, indeed, one of that dying breed ... the ceremonial magickian. I have worked the Golden Dawn as reviled by Francis Regardie with additions by more polite and forward authors through the 5=6. However, I would say that there are too damn many props and painful stage direction to make it a truly useful system. I have my dutifully consecrated tools for several different systems and use them regularly. I remain a congenital chaoist firmly balanced between the forms of Thelema and Yog-SoThoth. And I can banish a blue streak in most systems as befits one mucking about in most of the above (and all of the below). ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.06 What is ritual [what is "a scene"]? From: ice@netcom11.netcom.com (I. Chris English) Answer #B.1: Anything done sufficiently often or with enough intent to create the illusion that it is true. Aka, the deliberate creation of a habit. What I tell you three times is true. Anything done sufficiently often or with enough intent to create the illusion that it is true. What I tell you three times is true. Anything done sufficiently often or with enough intent to create the illusion that it is true. What I tell you three times is true. Answer #B.2: A social event in which the celebrants expect to change their lives or have their lives changed, perhaps by the event itself, perhaps by the preparation, perhaps by the post-processing. Answer #B.3: Any event honoring or celebrating a recent or near future change. Perhaps including the event of the celebration itself. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight Ritual is a systematic (though not necessarily always the same) series of steps to do something. Often the steps are symbolic and have only the slightest connection with the goal of the whole series. For example, there is a series of acts called by Allan Bennett "Ritual for Evocation unto Visible Appearance of the Great Spirit Taphthartharath." This is indeed a ritual. There is another ritual which I refer loosely to as "shawn's system of worshipping the sun, checking email, reading news, showering, dressing, cleaning teeth, and leaving the house; or, How Shawn Starts His Day." Note that only the first step in the latter would be viewed by many people as magical, but they're not me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM time and space in which anything can happen ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.07 what studies or traditions have you found useful? From: Shawn Clayton Knight Qabalah; Chaos magick a la Peter Carroll; Aleister Crowley and Thelema; and Israel Regardie and the Golden Dawn. I haven't found Enochian works all that well for me except for one working I did recently; Wicca never sat well with me, I fear; and I haven't tried Goetia enough to assess it fairly. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.08 Are you a Discordian? From: Shawn Clayton Knight Of course we are. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com Of(nord) course not! ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.09 How about the Church of the SubGenius? From: Shawn Clayton Knight How about them? Nice guys. Bob is kinda cool. There you have it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com Whellll, see, it's like this. Some of us will pay $91 to know what they think. This will get you a secret decoder ring, chances to buy new and exciting prizes, and all you can eat practice at woolgathering and outranking (and, yes, that DOES come fries.) However, the USE of the decoder ring is only available from The Church that actually KNOWS that it's all just One Big JOKE! And THAT only costs $30! Heck, if you had any sort of Salivation at all YOU could just GET the joke and SKIP the wool. 'sides, the chaotes NEVER got the Hang of RANT nor Capitializtion. "Those who cannot perceive, let them not understand, that they might not be saved." -- Jesus (Mark 5:23) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.10 Where does Cthulhu fit into all of this? From: Shawn Clayton Knight I don't know, why don't you wake him up and ask him? The _Necronomicon_ is for sale in Waldenbooks and B.Dalton Booksellers, after all. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM right into that corner over there. yes, that's it, have a seat. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com anywhere it wants ... ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.11. What questions to you get because of those Chessex chaos stars? From: Shawn Clayton Knight It started a great conversation, once. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (beebop a reebop) is that a new cereal? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com I wear a pair on my collar as well as a array of occult symbols. (an even nicer version come from Wizard's through Chaosium) I never get any comments (due, no doubt, to my menacing size and frighting scowl) ... The TOPYiods assume 'Oh, It's one of THEM' and the Gamers assume 'Oh, It's one of US' ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.12. Do you game? From: pali151@netcom.com (Sri Palindrome.151) Why, yes I do. In the game I'm playing right now, I'm a 5th level chaotick magickian whose involved in a desperate struggle to survive in what at least seems to be an environment that's generally somewhat hostile to such creatures. I don't play any RPG's, though :=} ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight Not really. My real life is entertaining enough and demands enough energy. However, I used to play AD&D all the time, having started with the original red D&D basic boxed set, and I still read my AD&D manuals for leisure at times. I've also been known to play Ars Magica (very briefly); I've read the Mage rules a few times; and I still have quite a kick-ass set of Magic: The Obsession cards. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com Hell Yes! What do you think I am? A liberal arts geek? I started playing D&D when the subliterate Boxed set first came out. Luckly, Chivalry and Sorcery rescued me from that fate ... I still play Call of Cthulhu, the Mutant Chronicles is a thing of strange and wonderous beauty, but Magic: The Gathering appears to be an all consuming addiction (I deal them out Black and Blue). I'm obviously a Virtual Adept right out of Mage: the Ascension. Nephlim may just be god ... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM this is serious bizness. games are for those with imagination . ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: 06.13. Can you be lumped in with the CyberPunk label? From: pali151@netcom.com (Sri Palindrome.151) Depends what you mean by a CyberPunk... if you mean someone with a somewhat rebellious streak that also knows how to use a computer, then yes. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shawn Clayton Knight I couldn't live without electronic mail. I could barely live without newsgroups. That's about the extent of it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM NO! PLEEZE! NOT THE CP LAPEL! oh jeez, I thot you were gonna pin me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ashton@netcom.com When do I get my data-jack, cummer? ======================================================================= TAIL ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Subject: Ack From: Tail The article skeleton was swiped from the news.software.nn faq. I. Chris English wrote the initial FAQ questions for am.sex. To those who actually filled in the blanks: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com knightster+@cmu.edu Nephilim from Chaosium reminded me of Chineese Portrait. He Who is Hard to Name (etu, Sri Palindrome.151, Steve AOS, ...) for WORKINGs, damit! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: End From: Tail go away =========================== PHYSICAL END ==============================